Remove a map for the duel tournament

mick05 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:03 pm

Well now it's done to the community, down the players playing.

Assuming we run with a 5 map system we need to remove on one of the 6 favorite maps going around atm.

Ill start the discussion, and if you vote I want to see a discussion to back up your vote.

My Opinion

I will be voting to rid dm6 because I think the map is overplayed and requires little skill to play. Constantly you see players quoting 'I only know this map', and from speaking to other players from both Quake 3 and Quake live days, old map is frustratingly boring includes bad game play, and noobie tactics. For me personally I don't like to play on it because any dick and harry who jumps into quake live will learn dm6 first which is great, but it's time for people to start learning to play other maps...

Discusssssss

Crib · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:08 pm

you can't please everyone, hopefully this thread gets full exposure amongst the community.

mick05 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:10 pm

indeed spread the love around, i want to hear some voice people, do you want to keep your precious dm6 :twisted:

Raaaaaagh · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:10 pm

jesus too hard, cant choose

ZenAku · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:12 pm

Each map kind of brings their own style too it, although t4 probably has the least to do with the variance in map and more so just playing an ffa with some armours almost

GrotesK · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:30 pm

im in favour of removing dm6 and bringing back t4. would be keen on playing someone on a map other than dm6/ztn.. i know its a huge ask these days, but it would be really good to see some of the newer players getting out of their comfort zone.

this thread http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1779392 brings up a lot of great thoughts on dm6.

poll probably isnt the greatest idea due to a lot of people not bothering to play/know how to play other maps.

irong · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:33 pm

I don't understand why there's this discussion.
Today there are 5 official duel maps :
- DM6 - Campgrounds Redux
- DM13 - Lost World
- Tourney7 - Furious Heights
- Tourney9 - House of Decay
- Ztntourney1 - Blood run

no need discussion, let's play international maps like all the tournaments... why Australia's tournament should be different? Let's promote and improve our Quake to fight the rest of the world !!!

IRONG
from New caledonia
cheers

ps : my fav map is t4

mick05 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:35 pm

have you ever heard of the term following sheep? besides this discussion was had about the international matches aswell irong

but thanks for your input mate

p.s. t4's my favourite map too ya cheeky bugger :lol:

wch · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:40 pm

This thread is shit.

rkng · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:11 pm

Regardless of whether or not T4 is included in the map pool next season I will probably not play it anymore than I do now because I see no reason to practice something different from the international standard.

I dislike both T4 and DM6 (Let's face it, it's really just between these two maps).

There seems to be little to none strategy involved in T4 when you're out of control since it is just point-and-click-rail and grab some YA's when you can. Whereas DM6 requires you to plan your attacks really carefully when you're out of control because you're limited to working with shards and YA, so I think it involves a bit more skill and experience to play than T4 does.

Both maps are bad though, in my opinion.

Oh yeah and making a poll isn't going to show anything definite since some players are going to be voting out maps that are outside of their comfort zone rather than a map that doesn't fit or play as well as the other maps.

Forky · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:02 pm

T4.

Got rail? Check.
Got Armor? Who cares.
Next please.

EDIT: Why did they remove ca2 from the list? I have seen some fantastic duals on that map. Its nice and fast. You gotta keep moving round the map or you don't get shit.

phirt · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:34 pm

remove t4, add t6 and ca2, let players block one map each.
reason: t6 is the shit

cse · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:46 pm

If there's a unanimously accepted + non-subjective reason for a map to be worse than the rest, then fair enough to eliminate it ...but I don't think this is the case with these maps.

I reckon we leave it up to the community to decide each season - a poll with all the maps (including T6 and CA2 as they've been played in other tournaments previously), players vote for their least fav map. The 5 maps that get voted the least get picked for that season. People who didn't get a chance to vote...bad luck, they can vote next season if it means that much to them. If there are tied votes or lack of votes etc, then toss a coin or something

beasty · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:04 pm

Either get rid of ca2 or dm6 there both shit

just my thoughts

rkng · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:08 pm

beasty wrote:

Either get rid of ca2 or dm6 there both shit

just my thoughts

CA2 is already removed.

diabz · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:37 pm

The only thing wrong with t4 is the pro layout without the pro spawn times. pt4 was one of the most balanced maps, the idea being to avoid being railed by control of its spawn, confusing your opponent through middle, and timing mega. Qlive's t4 is a rail fest POS, add shonky I CAN'T FUCKING MISS netcode and you're right, it should be vetoed.

I strongly disagree with the statements that it is a map requiring no skill however and I guarantee you it can be won with < 20% rail against > 35% if you play it properly.

I'm not really familiar with t7 or t9 but I have to disagree with the dm6 sentiments as well. Again it's missing the pro elements but it's a large map with three tiers to control and nice small archways to frustrate aggressive chasing players. I used to hate dm6 in the q3 days because the tdm players always had a huge advantage with their map knowledge, but you see, that problem was mine. Being too shit to beat people on a map because they're better than you doesn't make the map bad.

I also agree that this thread is shit. kthxbi

GrotesK · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:49 pm

the rail on t4 is still 30secs, only map in qlive where you have the ability to completely control an item. people who think it's a rail fest obviously havnt watched pro's play it.

Crib · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:59 pm

GrotesK wrote:

the rail on t4 is still 30secs, only map in qlive where you have the ability to completely control an item. people who think it's a rail fest obviously havnt watched pro's play it.

actually its 12- 15 seconds.

GrotesK · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:03 am

Crib wrote:

GrotesK wrote:

the rail on t4 is still 30secs, only map in qlive where you have the ability to completely control an item. people who think it's a rail fest obviously havnt watched pro's play it.

actually its 12- 15 seconds.

ahh yeh 15 secs my bad..
haha

diabz · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:14 am

i refer more to the fact that a 15 second camp of that side of the map means you can pin your opponent on the other side of the map for 20 fucking rails. too much ammo is too much.

let's not forget 70 dmg with shotgun from sg to ya through both doors through middle for the fucking lose.

Forky · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:58 am

cse wrote:

If there's a unanimously accepted + non-subjective reason for a map to be worse than the rest, then fair enough to eliminate it ...but I don't think this is the case with these maps.

I reckon we leave it up to the community to decide each season - a poll with all the maps (including T6 and CA2 as they've been played in other tournaments previously), players vote for their least fav map. The 5 maps that get voted the least get picked for that season. People who didn't get a chance to vote...bad luck, they can vote next season if it means that much to them. If there are tied votes or lack of votes etc, then toss a coin or something

When in doubt. Stick with current ESL map pool imo.

TcheQ · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:50 am

i voted dm6(since I was given a choice), but agree with the opinion to stick with international tournament rules.

Tree_ · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:59 am

Remove dm6, we'll be the only country in the world not using it; but atleast I never have to play it again.

pathe · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:01 am

i think dm13 is easy to lock down, it can lead to games where the person in control has to give up control to get one frag and it makes the slowest games in my opinion

maps that get the highest frag counts are probably my favorite, i guess at the highest level the frag counts stay low usually but i think if i would remove anything it would be dm13 because its just so damn tight and slowwww

mick05 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:00 pm

everybody made very good points. But really if I was running international tournaments and looking at Australia, "wtf they aren't even playing the same maps as us, pfft no challenege" might occur.

So we will sticking the dubai maps, information about the upcoming 2010 duel comps will be posted shortly next week

mikey · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:27 pm

So dm6 is a bad map, but all of you clowns think t9 is a good map (god forbid, t7 as well?)

Seeing as I won't be playing I could care less, but by all means, drop a map which has been played around the world for years, in competitions no doubt, producing some of the best matches in quake3's history, I mean, go nuts!

So far the people who have been attacking dm6 are fucking shit, so how about we have some informed discussion from people who enjoy playing the map because they like what it offers.

I don't even like t4 that much but in terms of balance it's year ahead (or behind, lol!) the fucking shit that ID have produced.

In conclusion, this thread is shit.

diabz · **Posted:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:11 am

mikey wrote:

So dm6 is a bad map, but all of you clowns think t9 is a good map (god forbid, t7 as well?)

Seeing as I won't be playing I could care less, but by all means, drop a map which has been played around the world for years, in competitions no doubt, producing some of the best matches in quake3's history, I mean, go nuts!

So far the people who have been attacking dm6 are fucking shit, so how about we have some informed discussion from people who enjoy playing the map because they like what it offers.

I don't even like t4 that much but in terms of balance it's year ahead (or behind, lol!) the fucking shit that ID have produced.

In conclusion, this thread is shit.

quoted for pure dose of reality, fuck off if you don't want a here here.

xujo · **Posted:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:38 am

Piss off t4 because it's dogshit.

jth · **Posted:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:05 am

Don't see a reason not to follow the ESL map list, especially with rumours of IEM in Australia!

Kiddie · **Posted:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:11 pm

These six maps are the best we have available for dueling in quake live atm and I personally love all of them.

I think the reason for some of the more emotional responses so far is that some people are getting the wrong idea - that we are here to weed out the 'obviously' bad map in the list. The trick is to remember that all of these are actually good maps, but unfortunately we need an odd number of maps to run a proper tournament, meaning that one of them will have to be dropped.

Which leaves us with two choices - play the same five maps that were chosen in the most recent international competition/s, or create our own list of five.

My vote is to create our own list, but keep in mind which map was dropped and make sure that it can't be dropped in the next tournament and so on. Just cycle them.

I figure sooner or later id software has got to add another good duel map (hub..) which would then bring the total map list to the ideal number of seven.

PS. Yes I think that ca2 is/was a bad map.

Leash · **Posted:** Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:13 am

I quite like T4 and CA2, however CA2 can get very cagey and slow.

T4 you can get some exciting games happening due to lack of armor and the fact the game can change with 1 rail shot but from a competitive stand point this probably isn't a good thing.
T9 I despise the teleporter game however it's good to have something fresh.

tl;dr
Concur with others thoughts as to comply with international rulesets.

mick05 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:21 am

it's done mate

Attack · **Posted:** Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:33 pm

T4 is terrible.

esntial · **Posted:** Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:26 pm

im am sad no t4 and almost lost

t4 may not be as competitive/test of skills etc w/e but it sure has exciting matches

Remove a map for the duel tournament

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